tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post2918799051552716900..comments2024-03-28T15:17:25.159+08:00Comments on Classical Chinese Poems in English: 白居易 Bai Juyi: 花非花 Flower No FlowerAndrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發http://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-73008853313998363192023-06-26T05:04:17.676+08:002023-06-26T05:04:17.676+08:00Thank you for this post. I learned alot. The othe...Thank you for this post. I learned alot. The other half of the internet thinks the poem is not about a passing nighttime visit, but the ephemeral nature of life itself. And don't miss Joey Schwartzman:<br /><br />You call these flowers? You call this perfume?<br />I wasn’t expecting company.<br />How long are you in town? Next time then.Zphxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04611576562186244163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-82778601612473141832021-09-29T18:38:36.592+08:002021-09-29T18:38:36.592+08:00Hello mate greeat blog postHello mate greeat blog postNickhttps://www.nicolasford.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-52805119072317993302020-07-09T09:30:50.547+08:002020-07-09T09:30:50.547+08:00A FLOWER THEN NOT
by Bai Ju Yi (772-846)
A flowe...A FLOWER THEN NOT<br />by Bai Ju Yi (772-846) <br /><br />A flower then not, a foggy mist not long<br />Here at midnight, fled by dawn<br />Like fleeting spring dreams <br />As morning clouds gone<br /><br />Jonathan Babcock 白宗杰Jonathan Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02436442765066362475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-28175728838115210212019-03-05T22:55:09.345+08:002019-03-05T22:55:09.345+08:00Dear Mr Wong,
Appreciate very much your translatio...Dear Mr Wong,<br />Appreciate very much your translations which has prompted my children and myself to join in the fun. Would like to share our version of this much loved poem. We have interpreted 春夢 as a dream of romance rather than dream of spring... <br /><br /><br />Neither petals, nor mist.<br />It comes, in the deep of the night.<br />It fades, at the first of light.<br /><br />Like a dream of romance, <br />It doesn't last long,<br />It leaves without a trace,<br />Like a cloud of dawn.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17087815969952915024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-90542314559235663782018-02-20T13:45:01.553+08:002018-02-20T13:45:01.553+08:00My version:
The bloom no longer a bloom
the mist ...My version:<br /><br />The bloom no longer a bloom<br />the mist no longer mist -<br />she came at midnight<br />& went at dawn<br />a spring dream of uncertain length<br />gone like morning cloud<br />without any trace.Bruce Pattersonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-8732377201900930212014-10-14T15:55:11.753+08:002014-10-14T15:55:11.753+08:00Dear Ray,
I am glad you like my "oh, so brief...Dear Ray,<br />I am glad you like my "oh, so brief" for line 3 and "morning clouds" (instead of "clouds at dawn") for line 4. As for line 2, I have decided to simply follow your first suggestion to use "daybreak" instead of my original "daylight". These revisions are now effected on my post.<br /><br />I am most grateful to you for your well considered analyses, comments and suggestions which are immensely helpful. I thank you for endorsing my "go, know" rhyme which, though over-used (like my "trees, breeze" rhyme for Li Bai's "A Summer Day in the Mountains", is "natural" (your word) and "perhaps perfect for the occasion" (my words). As for your last point on my repetition of "come", I must say it is done on purpose as the original repeats 來 "come" in lines 2 and 3. My only regret is I have been unable to repeat the 去 "go" in line 2 as "go" but as "gone" in line 4.<br />Thank you, Ray. Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-45955336951565805352014-10-13T17:08:21.359+08:002014-10-13T17:08:21.359+08:00I do like your modification to "oh, so brief&...I do like your modification to "oh, so brief". This works for me on a number of levels; it emphasises the briefness more effectively than "brief, so brief", it makes the line into a lament, regretting that the visit was so short, providing a feeling of longing for another visit. Very interesting how profound an impact such a small change has had on the entire poem in translation.<br /><br />Introducing "dawn" into line two has, for me, the same effect as my suggested "daybreak" and so emphasises the fleeting moment of togetherness which the "oh, so brief" in line 3 then reinforces. You rightly change line 4 to remove "dawn" to become "morning" (and hence avoid repetition of this word) and I think works better as a phrase "gone as the morning clouds" rather than "gone as the clouds at dawn". Using "morning clouds" provides for me a means to show the transient nature of the coming together of the two people in the poem, and establishes a very nice image in my mind of the poet knowing his love has gone, he looks longingly into the skies and sees the early morning clouds dissipating, just as his love made only the briefest of visits.<br /><br />I think you are right not to try to force a more complicated rhyme at line 2 and 4 ("go" and "know" being quite natural), changing "go" to "gone" or some other word would mean an almost contrived rhyming word at line 4 would be needed, which would be much less satisfactory.<br /><br />I read through the poem several times and found myself wondering about the repetition of "you come" (lines 2 and 3), I thought about both "you arrive" or "you appear" for line 3, though these add an extra syllable which may be challenging to resolve.Ray Heatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11458153443445711776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-51664100921823934702014-10-13T14:37:02.595+08:002014-10-13T14:37:02.595+08:00I have now made up my mind on (2). I had original...I have now made up my mind on (2). I had originally penned it as "O brief, so brief", then shortened it to "brief, so brief". Thank to Ray's suggestion of "so, so brief", I have now decided to revise it to read "oh, so brief" as I don't think it necessary to echo the repetition of "no" in line 1.<br /><br />As for (1), will Ray kindly comment on my original alternative of "By midnight, you come; by dawn, away you go" for line 2 and ""Gone as the morning clouds" for line 4?Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-46302763166701231092014-10-13T02:16:55.938+08:002014-10-13T02:16:55.938+08:00Yes, I did appreciate the internal rhyme daylight/...Yes, I did appreciate the internal rhyme daylight/night however "daylight" didn't infer to me that someone was leaving at first light, sneaking away before being seen almost; whereas, to me, daybreak gave that sense more convincingly.Ray Heatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11458153443445711776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-23403663709666926372014-10-13T01:57:33.720+08:002014-10-13T01:57:33.720+08:00Thank you, Ray, for your 2 very well considered su...Thank you, Ray, for your 2 very well considered suggestions. Allow me to lay bare my thoughts before I make a final decision.<br />(1) I picked "daylight" for an internal rhyme with "night". I must now consider if the unrhymed "daybreak" is preferable, the original being unrhymed.<br />(2) I was in a hurry to point out the "dream of spring" was "brief" and "so brief", hoping a repetition of the word "brief" enhances the sense. I must now considered if "so, so brief" is preferable in terms of both sound and meaning. Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-42069074489908277652014-10-12T03:04:17.044+08:002014-10-12T03:04:17.044+08:00I'll need to check out the music , but as a po...I'll need to check out the music , but as a poem there are perhaps two changes I would consider. Firstly, I prefer Daybreak to Daylight, as to me this would then give a better impression of leaving at first light. Secondly, I'd consider using "so, so brief" rather than "brief, so brief" as this then ties in to the repetition of "no" in lines one.<br /><br />I looked at a number of other translations of this poem, all of which are very similar to each other, whereas you Andrew have managed a new and more interesting interpretation!Ray Heatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11458153443445711776noreply@blogger.com