tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post6057683172315445884..comments2024-03-29T13:53:58.551+08:00Comments on Classical Chinese Poems in English: 白居易 Bai Juyi: 賦得古原草送別 Grass of the Ancient Prairie Bidding Farewell: Written to a Prescribed TitleAndrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發http://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-89621387099366947552019-09-23T22:27:43.901+08:002019-09-23T22:27:43.901+08:00Chinese poems are awesome. The use of words is rea...Chinese poems are awesome. The use of words is really amazing. The Recipes PKhttps://www.therecipespk.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-43988238882347579332017-11-13T15:02:41.218+08:002017-11-13T15:02:41.218+08:00Dear Andrew, Wow, much appreciate your time and ef...Dear Andrew, Wow, much appreciate your time and effort in editing my translation. Thank you. I thought it was free verse because I did not attempt to structure it in any particular form other than try to have each pair of lines roughly about the same length, and also for the lines of the whole poem, and mainly just trying to keep the original imagery and mood. I learnt about poetry from my "Eng Lit" teachers in the 60's, so, much of it I have 'returned' to them since :)Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14473139174740412105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-9288985787460388292017-11-13T00:40:18.328+08:002017-11-13T00:40:18.328+08:00Dear Walter, Thank you for visiting my blog and f...Dear Walter, Thank you for visiting my blog and for your free verse rendition. If I am not mistaken, by free verse you mean un-rhymed lines, as you seem to be attempting 4-foot/beat lines throughout. Accordingly, may I suggest the following (largely based on your rendition) for your consideration:-<br /><br />1 The grass so luscious on the grassland; ("on" read stressed)<br />2 Yearly it wilts yet thrives again.<br />3 Wild fires that burn cannot destroy it;<br />4 In the breezy spring, again it grows.<br />5 Its fragrance permeates the ancient highway; (or your invades) <br />6 Its verdure reaches the ramparts in ruins. (or your hugs) <br />7 Once more, my friend, I bid you farewell,<br />8 Ample like the grass, O my parting sorrows!<br /><br />Your line 3 reads like "it (grass) cannot destroy wild fires". Your line 4 is one foot (or beat) short. For lines 5 and 6, I have reversed the order to a more natural order. I have put in a new line 8.<br /><br />For your consideration, please. Best wishes, Andrew Wong.<br /> <br /><br /><br />Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-44263062262714361552017-11-12T12:13:08.769+08:002017-11-12T12:13:08.769+08:00Dear Andrew, Thank you for introducing Chinese poe...Dear Andrew, Thank you for introducing Chinese poetry to those of us who can't read Chinese or are not very good in Chinese. In reading your explanation and translation of this poem, I am moved to try rendering it into English also. I simply put into English the imagery and mood that are evoked in my mind, in free verse. I welcome your comments, thank you.<br /><br />"Bidding farewell at the ancient grassland"<br /><br />Grass so luscious on the grassland,<br />Yearly it wilts yet thrives again;<br />Wild fires it cannot destroy,<br />In the breeze of spring revives;<br />Ancient highways its fragrance invades,<br />Ruins of ramparts its glistening hue hugs;<br />Again I bid farewell to my good friend,<br />Good bye, good bye! at the verdant grassland.TY Lo (Walter)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14579979247262555736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-37236211282670621132017-11-08T16:29:12.417+08:002017-11-08T16:29:12.417+08:00Dear Shahzaib Khan, I am afraid not. Thank you f...Dear Shahzaib Khan, I am afraid not. Thank you for visiting my blog. Andrew Wong.Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-23367221202435032592017-11-06T14:55:21.984+08:002017-11-06T14:55:21.984+08:00Dear Ray, When I said last night (rather, early t...Dear Ray, When I said last night (rather, early this morning) "凄凄(rather than 萋萋)滿別情 ... would make the last 2 lines completely disjointed," I meant "disjointed from the rest of the poem" which is, in my view, a poem about "grass of the ancient prairie" 古原草 (not 古草原), about its vitality and resilience, about it (together with the poet or on the poet's suggestion) "bidding farewell" 送別 to the poet's noble friend; as such, the "parting feelings" 別情 cannot be feelings of sadness but should be parting wishes, wishing the poet's friend: "All the best! Be full of life! Be like me (and) the prairie grass!"<br /><br />The source closest to Bai's time (772-846) I can find that contains a tinge sadness in the use of 萋萋 is 芳草萋萋鸚鵡洲 in 崔顥 (704?-754) Cui Hao's 黃鶴樓. But Cui's sadness is homesickness, not parting; and the sadness is not apparent in the line but in the word 愁 "sad" in the last line 煙波江上使人愁.<br /><br />Your quote 王孫遊兮不歸 春草生兮萋萋 is from an age Before the Common Era. It is from a poem entitled 招隱士 "Invitation to a Hermit" purportedly written by 淮南王 Lord of Huinan 劉安 Liu An (179-122 BCE), probably written by his courtiers collectively known as 淮南小山 Huinan Little Hill. 萋萋 here can only mean "lush/luxuriant" as the whole poem is an invitation to one or more who have left to return to the court, the ending 2 lines being 王孫兮歸來 山中兮不可久留.<br /><br />The earliest source is the Book of Odes 詩經, a compilation of earlier works by 孔子 Confucius (551-479 BCE), in which is the poem 周南 葛覃 which runs: 葛之覃兮 施于中谷 維葉萋萋 ... "How the cloth-plant spreads/ Across the midst of the valley!/ Thick grows its leaves." [Arthur Waley] Here, the only meaning possible is "thick/luxuriant".<br /><br />Dear Ray, Best wishes, Andrew.<br /><br /> <br /> Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-51544927303321791912017-11-06T00:05:04.922+08:002017-11-06T00:05:04.922+08:00Dear Ray, Sorry for breaking up my response to yo...Dear Ray, Sorry for breaking up my response to your kind comment. I had a dinner appointment last evening.<br /><br />I said yesterday that the poem is about the vitality and resilience of the grass of the prairie. Lines 1 to 4 are obviously about the grass. Lines 5 and 6 should be read as a continuation of the first 4 lines, and not the beginning of the second 4 lines about separation/farewell. I have rendered all 6 lines as the poet addressing the grass in the second person. So, given line 5 refers to the sweet grass scent and line 6 refers to green grass shoots, there is no question of these lines being lines about the poet and his princely friend; and even if the grass in these 6 lines were rendered in the third person, it would be far fetched to stretch the meaning to your idea of "as though the poet and his "prince" are separated, their feelings will cross the distances, a love undying." <br /><br />I have indeed in my notes mentioned 離 as suggesting "parting" but have hastened to add that 離離 should mean "lush, luxuriant". I could have, and regret I have not, added that this comes from 彼黍離離 in the poem 王風 黍離 (of the old "Book of Odes" 詩經) which is a lament of the demise of the Western Zhou dynasty and its capital becoming millet fields growing well, in which, the sense of "grow luxuriantly" far outweighs "parting", in this case, the passing of a dynasty.<br /><br />I do agree 萋萋 "qi qi" has the same sound as other words meaning "sorrowful" and I, if I may, suggest 凄凄 "bleak, desolate" instead of your 戚戚 "sorrow, woe" (as in Cantonese, your 戚戚 is pronounced "tsik tsik" in the entering tone which is radically different from "tsai tsai" for the other 2.) However, in my view, this play on the sound is deployed to display some sadness. The poet is not saying he is overwhelmed by sadness, in which case, he should have said 凄凄(rather than 萋萋)滿別情 which would make the last 2 lines completely disjointed. [More on the sources of 草 萋萋 tomorrow.] <br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-69021402894927029472017-11-04T18:21:03.061+08:002017-11-04T18:21:03.061+08:00Dear Ray, Thank you for sharing your learned thou...Dear Ray, Thank you for sharing your learned thoughts. <br /><br />There indeed may be hidden depths such as (1) "grass alluding to villains", and (2) "grass alluding to Bai's family history": one version of the poem begins with 咸陽原上草 (i.e. "You grass of the Xianyang prairie thrive") instead of 離離, and 咸陽 near Si-an 西安 is where Bai's kingly fore-forefathers used to live. But these depths I have never suggested, nor even hinted at in my notes.<br /><br />I have simply interpreted the poem to be a song in praise of the grass, its vitality and its resilience, which interpretation is the most natural and apparent. I hope I have succeeded in putting this across in my rendition. [Sorry, to be continued.] Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-54855943782635423352017-11-04T04:35:52.758+08:002017-11-04T04:35:52.758+08:00There are perhaps hidden depths to this poem which...There are perhaps hidden depths to this poem which I don't pick up from the translation, but are hinted at in Andrew's glossies.<br /><br /><br />I think the first 6 lines lead us towards and reveal meanings about the last two lines, the departure of a friend (lover perhaps, though suggestions elsewhere that the poet was aged just 16 makes friend more likely, although 王孫 may also reference an earlier poem and if the poet was writing for the examinations would reveal the poet's literary learning).<br /><br /><br />Andrew mentions 離 as suggesting "parting", but I think this meaning is then too easily dismissed. If we look at the final line, 萋萋, qiqi, has the same sound as 戚戚, sorrowful. Therefore we can assume the whole poem is an expression of sadness at a parting, his 王孫's departure.<br /><br /><br />Though the wildfires occur, and each year brings destruction, nature prevails, the grasses grow luxuriant once again. Are lines 5 and 6 referring to the grasses or to the poet and his "prince", just as though the poet and his "prince" are separated, their feelings will cross the distances, a love undying. <br /><br /><br />王孫 also occurs in the well known lines 王孫遊兮不歸 春草生兮萋萋, roughly, "(while my) prince wanders away from home, the spring grasses are grown lush". Is this an inspiration for this poem?<br />Ray Heatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11458153443445711776noreply@blogger.com