tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post4233573041288503575..comments2024-03-28T15:17:25.159+08:00Comments on Classical Chinese Poems in English: 李白 Li Bai: 玉階怨 Sentiments on the Steps of MarbleAndrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發http://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-65181019457379745852013-08-27T17:37:30.658+08:002013-08-27T17:37:30.658+08:00I thank Ray Heaton for alerting me to Qiu Xuelai&#...I thank Ray Heaton for alerting me to Qiu Xuelai's thesis entitled Translating Classical Chinese Poetry into English: Challenges and a Possible Solution---A Case Study of Translating Li Po's "Grievance on Jaded Steps" which I have now read with great interest and which I would commend to all who are interested in the poem itself or the translation of classical Chinese poetry in general. Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-18120003825660646352013-08-23T03:49:05.578+08:002013-08-23T03:49:05.578+08:00There is an extensive treatise on translating this...There is an extensive treatise on translating this poem here https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/qiu_xuelai_201205_ma.pdf<br /><br />This provides an analysis of Ezra Pound’s and Professor Sun Dayu’s translation and a translation cited in Zong-qi Cai’s How to Read Chinese Poetry.Ray Heatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11458153443445711776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-34801019204436505542012-08-31T05:05:38.630+08:002012-08-31T05:05:38.630+08:00i meant: "we'll have cheerios together wi...i meant: "we'll have cheerios together with a bottle of red wine when we next meet."Frank Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939635563021036391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-1498981641207601082012-08-31T05:02:34.524+08:002012-08-31T05:02:34.524+08:00cheers, andrew!
(and cheerio with have a bottle ...cheers, andrew! <br /><br />(and cheerio with have a bottle of red wine together when we next meet.)<br /><br />thanks for the extra info.<br /><br />when a poet-translator invokes the poetic licence, most things are possible and permissible i suppose. <br /><br />but i don't think i'm " re-writting the original line (玉階生白露) as 露生白玉階."<br /><br />my defence: they're one and the same thing. 玉階生白露 = 露生白玉階! (hehee!)<br /><br />for the dew is colourless. when it gradually gathers on the white marble steps, it appears white in colour too. simple explanation, isn't it? Frank Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939635563021036391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-55999472214463693442012-08-24T18:02:16.575+08:002012-08-24T18:02:16.575+08:00Sorry, Fellenosa in point (*) above should read Fe...Sorry, Fellenosa in point (*) above should read Fenollosa, being Ernest Fenollosa. Apologies again.Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-61479666834430975582012-08-15T20:48:14.405+08:002012-08-15T20:48:14.405+08:00Forgive my not working on Frank's rendition as...Forgive my not working on Frank's rendition as I am absorbed in thoughts on my own. May I, therefore, simply respond to the points made. <br />(*) Ezra Pound named Li Bai as Rihaku because he did not know Chinese and was using materials in the unpublished Fellenosa papers, Ri(李)haku(白) being the Japanese transliteration of the Chinese.<br />(1) If "whitened" is incorrect because dew is colourless, then the original 白露 is similarly flawed, or is it? Can't a bit of poetic licence be granted?<br />(2) Point well made about my "marble" and Pound's "jewel" and "jewelled". Again, I invoke poetic licence not so much for Pound but for myself. But it seems to me Frank is re-writting the original line as 露生白玉階.<br />(3) I think "clinging" is the most beautiful word I have used in my rendition. No one can actgually cling to the moon. Precisely because of this, 望 "gazing at" metaphorically stands for "clinging to" and vice versa.<br /><br />Cheers, Frank! Long time no see. I am still well. Thank you. Andrew W.F. Wong 黃宏發https://www.blogger.com/profile/13042865467544530221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-54086206646676767132012-07-08T22:31:41.330+08:002012-07-08T22:31:41.330+08:00may i post my attempted rendition?
【玉階怨】李白
玉階生白露...may i post my attempted rendition?<br /><br />【玉階怨】李白<br /><br />玉階生白露, <br />夜久侵羅襪。<br />卻下水晶簾, <br />玲瓏望秋月。<br /><br /><br />LAMENT OF THE STEPS OF WHITE JADE -- Li Bai<br /><br />Dews are born and grow on the steps made of white jade; <br />For lingering too long, her two silk socks are all wet.<br />She lowers the crystal blinds and, behind the shade,<br />Gazes at Autumn moon (with a trace of regret).Frank Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939635563021036391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-7485748591719110092012-07-08T22:07:09.698+08:002012-07-08T22:07:09.698+08:00and andrew,
if you wish, please just ignore the f...and andrew,<br /><br />if you wish, please just ignore the following (that are some ultra minor points by one guy on your rendition).<br /><br />1. line 1 "All whitened with dew," (these steps of marble) :<br /><br />seems to imply that dew is not colourless but 'white'.<br /><br />2. line 1 "these steps of marble" :<br /><br />the palace steps in the forbidden city are all made of 漢白玉, a type of 'white' marble while marble itself may be of various and diverse colours. b t w, ezra pound's translation of "jewelled steps" (in his line 1) is way off the mark though imaginative. <br /><br />3. line 4 "Still clinging to autumn’s clear, bright moon."<br /><br />it's difficult to relate "clinging" with 望. it seems to weaken considerably the eye-connection and sentiments expressed in the original.Frank Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939635563021036391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3395481176873249475.post-23153107720945026092012-07-08T20:57:54.104+08:002012-07-08T20:57:54.104+08:00hi, andrew,
thank you for a fine rendition.
long...hi, andrew,<br /><br />thank you for a fine rendition.<br /><br />long time no see. hope everything's fine with you!<br /><br />i'm intrigued by ezra pound's translating li bai as 'rihaku' in japanese while his rendition of the body of the great tang poet's poem is in chinese!<br /><br />frankFrank Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939635563021036391noreply@blogger.com